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Are Car Campers An Endangered Species in National Parks?

Aug 14th - 17:43pm | Random Walker

Car camping is for poor people (?) bull crap! Where did that come from? For me the hotel situation in Our National Parks is out of control. I would like to see them all removed. If it is the duty of Our National Park system to preserve and protect for future generations the wilderness experience, we have fallen way short.

Aug 14th - 16:29pm | jsmacdonald

Jon,

Aug 14th - 16:06pm | Merryland

Jim, I hear what you're saying (we've had a similar conversation before) but I don't think you can really speak for everyone who's considered to be "lower income". ("campgrounds still don't appeal to the lower class because they still cost about $18 a night").

Aug 14th - 15:48pm | jsmacdonald

Steve, I think it's offensive to assume that lower income people are lower income simply because they are wasting their money. Or, to be fair to your point, it's offensive to say that a lower income person has no reason to balk at higher prices just because their $5 cup of coffee impacts them more than the same cup by those who can afford lodging.

Aug 14th - 14:23pm | Matt

jbojay, what campgrounds are you spending time in that do not allow campfires?

Aug 14th - 14:10pm | Anonymous

if the cost of camping is raised, it should only for those with hard sided units such as RV's, pop up trailers and the like.

Aug 14th - 13:34pm | ssurasky

I think that car camping is still great, although sometimes noisy or otherwise rude neighbors at campgrounds can make for an unpleasant visit. Even with that, I can recall few times where the behavior of those adjacent to my site marred my experience to the extent that I still remember it.

Aug 14th - 13:25pm | Bill

For many years my wife and I have been flying into various places from Baltimore to Las Vegas with a cooler and camping box. We rent a car and go explore national parks for our two week vacation. One of the highlights of these trips is to camp and be able to hike, often from the campsite. To wake up in the wild in a small tent, not in a box of aluminum.

Aug 14th - 12:49pm | Anonymous

It's not the proximity to the venue that car campers are seeking, for the most part, it's the experience of NOT staying in a bed every night, with conveniences like institutionalized food, gift shops, over-crowded walkways and the ever present hunt for the almighty parking spot close enough to the lodge to enable one to lug in the suitcases without the associated hernia.

Aug 14th - 11:22am | jbojay

Having raised my children with tent camping, which included a small open campfire (this is no longer available in most campgrounds now) each night upon which to bond with hot dogs and marshmallows roasting. I still enjoy getting out of the urbs as often as I can. Age has caused me to shift from a tent to a hard body due to creature comforts.

Aug 14th - 10:17am | Kath

This guy's complaints center on the reduction of campsites in Yosemite Valley. One of the largest campgrounds in the western United States is at Tuolumne Meadows. There's another large campground on the road to Glacier Point. But he wants to camp like his grandfather did right along the Merced River. Yosemite Valley is a small area.

The Traveler's Code of Conduct

Aug 14th - 14:33pm | ArizonaTraveler

I guess I could describe myself as an "old timer on the Internet" as well, but I don't believe your "Code of Conduct" for this site is censorship. It may fly in the face of the "longstanding network tradition" Random Walker mentioned above, but who says "flaming" is a tradition everyone should embrace?

Aug 13th - 16:19pm | jersu

I used to think of this website as being similar to "my house", and that you all as readers and commenters are guests at a giant party I've assembled to talk about parks. As host of this party, if I didn't think you were being fair to another party-goer, regardless of your political stance, I had deleted your comment. This didn't happen often.

Aug 13th - 15:09pm | Random Walker

Well hell, I am an old timer on the Internet and I feel you are "implementing a measure of censorship" for sure; also I am a strong advocate of online anonymity. As for Mr. Rule and his "code of conduct" I could care less (but that is another story :-))

Aug 13th - 10:57am | Anonymous

Points well taken.

USOC Feeling Overly Proprietary About "Olympic"

Aug 14th - 13:28pm | Aaron Barnes

The following is the text of an e-mail message that I have sent to Senators Murray and Cantwell and Representative Dicks, all from the state of Washington: ------------------------------------- I assume that by now you are aware of the AP newspaper article "Just whose Olympics are they?" by Curt Woodward, Published Sunday, Aug 12. If not, you can find it at

The Fight Against Fees Losses a Champion

Aug 14th - 07:44am | Kitty Benzar

Thank you Jeremy for posting this. I will make sure his family sees it. For the most part, they had no idea how important Rob's political work was. He was just their brother and uncle. They are coming to realize, through his untimely death, how many others valued him. [Edit of post, as per author's request. We'll learn a lot more about the Baucus bill this fall I hope. ~jersu]

Aug 13th - 11:43am | jersu

Beamis, I don't have full details on the Baucus bill yet. The "worst fee abuses by public land agencies" is quoted from the WSNFC email notification of Rob's death. I would suspect that it has something to do with fees collected under the FLREA, but don't know for sure.

Aug 13th - 11:14am | Anonymous

As it's said, only the good die young. Thanks for all the assistance while you were able. I pray the child's been born to carry on this fight. Any volunteers, besides me?

Aug 13th - 10:09am | Matt

RIP, man, 50 is too young.

Vice President Cheney To Dedicate Grand Teton Visitor Center

Aug 14th - 07:42am | jsmacdonald

One more story lagged in on this today.

Aug 13th - 07:43am | jsmacdonald

A couple more stories out today:

Aug 12th - 20:09pm | Sally

Right on, Rachel. The leftists in this blog don't even deserve our parks! They really need to move to Canada or some third-world hell-hole, and maybe they'll be more grateful.

Aug 12th - 14:21pm | Rachel

"Protesters march on Cheney's home"... "You leftists are truly disgusting...get a frickin' job and maybe YOU can afford a home!!! Maybe the VEEP can hold target practice...LOL!! Oh, and moderator...please get a handle on the leftists here spewing hate...this blog is descending into great depths....

Aug 12th - 09:58am | jsmacdonald

More stories now that this has happened:

Aug 10th - 09:27am | jsmacdonald

To update you, anti-war protesters plan on being at the Visitor's Center ceremony in Grand Teton to protest Cheney and the war. They have some art to display but promise that it's not phallic, as had apparently been rumored.

Aug 10th - 08:32am | Dennis Patrick

Glen, You're not really suggesting what I think you're suggesting with this comment about the Vice President, are you? "In fact, impeachment isn't enough for a man who has committed treason during war time. There was a time when that called for more dire punishment." And you're insinuating my post was "vitriolic"? That's rich. Dennis Patrick

Fire Continues to Keep Yellowstone's East Entrance Closed

Aug 14th - 05:36am | jsmacdonald

Road re-opening at 8 AM today. 8/14/07 Yellowstone's East Entrance to reopen Tuesday morning (press release by National Park Service)

Aug 13th - 20:27pm | Anonymous

Watch for elk in the roadway, especially pre-dawn. We came upon the backsides of several small herds which were headed in the same direction as our vehicle. We were fortunate to experience a bravura sunrise that morning as we headed westward.

How is Secretary Kempthorne Doing After Year One?

Aug 13th - 20:29pm | Merryland

I think he comes into the administration at a good time -- a time when the president is attempting to polish up his legacy and Kempthorne is there to wave the flag on his behalf. There's only so much the head of the Interior can do... he or she is basically a puppet of the president with some limited ability to package and present it with his or her personality.

Like No Other Park in the System (I Hope)

Aug 13th - 16:22pm | Merryland

*Yawn* Is every conversation on this website going to be turned to the privatization/NGO topic? Fear mongering goes both ways, ya know... I've played the 9-hole course at Yosemite. It's not all that enjoyable or memorable. It should revert to meadowland.

Aug 13th - 12:07pm | repanshek

This is definitely a very intriguing and thought-provoking discussion. I have, however, a question or two for those promoting the turning over of parks to NGOs.

Aug 13th - 10:39am | jsmacdonald

Of course, all of this govt. vs. privatization misses the point that the national parks and private businesses have been in partnership since the very beginning and that there probably isn't a piece of the parks that hasn't been contracted out at some point to some private corporation.

Aug 12th - 20:35pm | judy

If you want to see how privitation has destroyed a park look at Stone Mountain State Park in Georgia. All of the natural aspects of the park have been paved over and blocked off in order to make golf courses, hotels and amusement park type areas. It is the horror that will happen if private firms take over our parks!

Aug 10th - 15:10pm | Marc

I'm not sure, if the Presidio of San Francisco should be a unit of the NPS, but the way they manage it, seems very well done. It was an US-Army base (1848-1994), and before one of the Spanish (1776-1822) and Mexican Army (1822-1848). Thousands of people lived there and worked there for several centuries.

Aug 10th - 11:26am | Merryland

To avoid the precedent issue,, they just need a new unit designation so such activities would be restricted to those particular types. Let's see... National Hysterical Park and Playground? -- Jon Merryman

Aug 10th - 10:48am | Mookie

And, just like the booze party at the Charlestown Navy Yard, it creates a PRECEDENT, which would make any future handover of parks to private developers much easier to slide through.

Candlelight Vigil Planned for Harpers Ferry

Aug 13th - 11:06am | Anonymous

God forbid, ME a LEFTIST? I proudly state once and for all, the biggest fools in this system are those who claim to be allied solely with either the "Left" or the "Right". PLEASE take your political interpretations elsewhere, as they are not pertinent to this columnist.

Aug 12th - 20:14pm | Sally

Wow, ANON, that's quite a wild tangent..."fires of nuclear hell", huh?!...and I thought that's what awaits the Islamofascists if they hit us with a dirty bomb! You leftists are SO funni!! LMAO!!!

Aug 12th - 10:00am | Anonymous

As I've stated on numerous other topics on multiple websites, if there's a profit to be had, such things as public lands, presevation interests, historical significance, etc.

Aug 10th - 09:07am | Anonymous

Bush and his administration will never allow the vandals of public land to be prosecuted.

There's Plenty to Talk About

Aug 11th - 16:41pm | Dorothy

As a new member here I really enjoyed this. It gave me a nice perspective of the mission and goals. I am thrilled to hear separate pages for each park are in the works. I read here daily and am looking forward to the additions mentioned. I love the postings and the exchange as well; it is interesting exploring so many ideas and opinions, even those with which I don't necessarily agree.

Blue Angels Fly By Grand Tetons

Aug 11th - 09:18am | Bob Ostler

My vote goes for letting the Blue Angels in and kicking the airport OUT.

Big Run Watershed, Shenandoah

Aug 10th - 18:49pm | EOSREBELXT

This is a great place to visit. I love camping at Big Meadows Campground. Nice shot!

What's Your Vision for the Centennial Initiative?

Aug 10th - 09:20am | jsmacdonald

Beamis, here is the difference. No other species but humans classifies humans as humans, other animals as other animals, and sets up a value system based on those differences. They simply act; some act in the best interest of their species, some in the best interest of themselves, some to the detriment of themselves.

Aug 10th - 09:04am | lennea

Snowbird06 Beamis, thanks for your reply...let me ponder over this a bit. But, doesn't Zen Buddhist equate all life equal with humans? I don't think they consider themselves as despoilers of God's creation on earth.

Aug 9th - 23:00pm | Merryland

Wow, all that philosophy is making my head hurt. I just love the National Parks. Can't wait to dress up like a colonial bumpkin and visit some historical parks during the Centennial celebration. Maybe even step on a few colonial cockroaches too. -- Jon Merryman

Aug 9th - 22:38pm | jsmacdonald

Yes, but that's not the same as value neutral or postmodern or relativistic. Yes, I don't believe there is any case for speciesism at all. Yet, from the particular case that I don't think that there is a reason to value one species over another (though certainly, as a living and breathing person, I do assert myself) does not entail that one is value neutral on all questions.

Aug 9th - 22:17pm | lennea

Snowbird06 Beamis, you stated in response to Jim's blog: "Again, the sad part is that many others feel that way as well", in what way or ways are you referring too. I trying to read between the lines on this one, can you please be more specific. It's interesting what's being said here between both parties.

Your National Parks Pass Doesn't Always Cover Your Entrance Fee

Aug 10th - 00:29am | wtfmate

Ok, heres why your pass doesnt cover the 8 dollar fee. When attendance to Mount Rushmore started to become more than the tiny lot could handle, obviously, something had to be done. A 17 million dollar parking structure was proposed, but federal funding wasnt approved for it. Instead congress granted a loan for it. Yes, loans have to be paid off. Hence, the 8 dollar fee.

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