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Are Car Campers An Endangered Species in National Parks?

Aug 16th - 10:38am | Kath

The quote in Kurt's piece says that tent and RV Camping 'in the National Parks' is down 44%. There weren't floods in all of them. The floods and the reduction in campsites was only in Yosemite Valley, not even in the rest of Yosemite. One of the largest campgrounds in the western U. S. is in Tuolumne Meadows in the Yosemite high country.

Aug 16th - 09:01am | Merryland

I got it -- turn the golf course into more camping space. They can keep one hole as a driving range for historical purposes and the people clamoring for tent space will have somewhere to go. -- Jon Merryman

Aug 16th - 07:43am | Dan

A no-registration-required of the same LA Times article (i think...) is http://travel.latimes.com/articles/la-trw-yosemitecampers13aug13

Aug 16th - 01:11am | Marc

@Kath: Tent camping is not down 44%. It is at the same level as before, with about 90% occupancy. The flood just reduced the number of tent camping sites available, so the total number of nights is down. Never trust a statistics, before you have seen how it was made.

Aug 15th - 21:44pm | Judy

The best memories of life come from camping. I have been in all of the lower 48 states and across Canada. It would have neverbeen possible for my family to afford to travel like that without a tent as lodging. We would just load up and go. Buy an annual National Park Pass and you never knew where you could visit tomorrow or next week.

Aug 15th - 12:21pm | jsmacdonald

I understood your point perfectly well. My point is that it's an irrelevant connection to be making. Whether people should or shouldn't be frugal is one thing; the reasons why prices are raised are something else. Whether you've misspent your money or not and happen to be poor, you have reason to be upset if public goods are out of reach because someone decided to raise prices.

Aug 15th - 11:36am | ssurasky

Jim,

Aug 15th - 02:10am | jbojay

Matt: Arizona has had extreme fire regulation due to drought here. Kath: my sentiments also If I could use the ground I would not need to use the Lodges, but when I use the ground to sleep on in the morning I wonder if I had slept in it and this was the resurrection and I was having to pay for my transgressions with the pain.

Aug 14th - 23:31pm | Kath

You all apparently missed the stat in the article. Tent and RV camping is down in the National Parks by 44%. If there' less demand, why increase the supply of campsites, particularly in Yosemite Valley, which is the location that the man featured in the article is so incensed over. The average age in this country is getting older and older folks don't want to sleep on the ground. And RV's?

Aug 14th - 23:18pm | Anonymous

no, no more ed. he's overplayed, showing up on interp signs and whatnot... he needs his rest... he's done his time...

Aug 14th - 20:18pm | Constance

Tenting is not disappearing. It just depends where your are in the US will determine whether you will see more tents vs campers. Growing up in the mid-west we camped in a camper which only made sense since summer thunderstorms can ruin a trip because you can't cook in a tent. Also the mosquitos are awful. In the West where I have lived for the past 10 years you see more tents.

Aug 14th - 19:01pm | Merryland

I don't mind the hotels that follow the Parkitecture style... giant log cabins with huge fireplaces in the multistoried lobbies... I probably won't opt to pay for them until the day I'm too old to get up off the floor of my tent, but they serve a definite need.

Aug 14th - 17:43pm | Random Walker

Car camping is for poor people (?) bull crap! Where did that come from? For me the hotel situation in Our National Parks is out of control. I would like to see them all removed. If it is the duty of Our National Park system to preserve and protect for future generations the wilderness experience, we have fallen way short.

Aug 14th - 16:29pm | jsmacdonald

Jon,

Aug 14th - 16:06pm | Merryland

Jim, I hear what you're saying (we've had a similar conversation before) but I don't think you can really speak for everyone who's considered to be "lower income". ("campgrounds still don't appeal to the lower class because they still cost about $18 a night").

Aug 14th - 15:48pm | jsmacdonald

Steve, I think it's offensive to assume that lower income people are lower income simply because they are wasting their money. Or, to be fair to your point, it's offensive to say that a lower income person has no reason to balk at higher prices just because their $5 cup of coffee impacts them more than the same cup by those who can afford lodging.

Aug 14th - 14:23pm | Matt

jbojay, what campgrounds are you spending time in that do not allow campfires?

Aug 14th - 14:10pm | Anonymous

if the cost of camping is raised, it should only for those with hard sided units such as RV's, pop up trailers and the like.

Aug 14th - 13:34pm | ssurasky

I think that car camping is still great, although sometimes noisy or otherwise rude neighbors at campgrounds can make for an unpleasant visit. Even with that, I can recall few times where the behavior of those adjacent to my site marred my experience to the extent that I still remember it.

Aug 14th - 13:25pm | Bill

For many years my wife and I have been flying into various places from Baltimore to Las Vegas with a cooler and camping box. We rent a car and go explore national parks for our two week vacation. One of the highlights of these trips is to camp and be able to hike, often from the campsite. To wake up in the wild in a small tent, not in a box of aluminum.

Aug 14th - 12:49pm | Anonymous

It's not the proximity to the venue that car campers are seeking, for the most part, it's the experience of NOT staying in a bed every night, with conveniences like institutionalized food, gift shops, over-crowded walkways and the ever present hunt for the almighty parking spot close enough to the lodge to enable one to lug in the suitcases without the associated hernia.

Aug 14th - 11:22am | jbojay

Having raised my children with tent camping, which included a small open campfire (this is no longer available in most campgrounds now) each night upon which to bond with hot dogs and marshmallows roasting. I still enjoy getting out of the urbs as often as I can. Age has caused me to shift from a tent to a hard body due to creature comforts.

Aug 14th - 10:17am | Kath

This guy's complaints center on the reduction of campsites in Yosemite Valley. One of the largest campgrounds in the western United States is at Tuolumne Meadows. There's another large campground on the road to Glacier Point. But he wants to camp like his grandfather did right along the Merced River. Yosemite Valley is a small area.

Missing Hiker in Yosemite Found Dead

Aug 16th - 09:22am | Ken Bers

Sad, yes, but those of us who our vagabonds for natures beauty understand the risk. Especially for the lone hikers. My thought our with her family. Somehow I think they will understand and accept her tragic fate.

Aug 16th - 00:43am | JDP

I am a 55 year old widow and cancer survivor, among other things............I pray to God that I may leave this earth hiking in so beautiful a place...........................My condolences to her family, and my congratulations to Ms Bonaventura and praise to God that she was able to do the things she loved to the end of her life!

Aug 15th - 01:01am | TJ

I agree with Frank. I hike alone quite a bit and my family and friends are always worried that something will happen to me out there. I think that the only better place to pass away besides in the beauty of nature is asleep in your bed at home.

Aug 14th - 23:32pm | George Siewerd

It is sad when the life of someone who loved nature as much as she did is lost. My condolences go out to the Bonaventura family and the ones that were closest to her.

Aug 14th - 18:35pm | Anonymous

So very very sad. A place of beauty that holds so many painful memories now.

Pot Farmers Tilling Ground in Yosemite

Aug 16th - 00:34am | Merryland

I would just love to tell you EXACTLY what I think about tobacco, alcohol, and illegal drugs, but we're all making this effort to be more civil now, so I'll refrain from insulting folks here, even though it is something I wouldn't hesitate to say in person. For now, you'll have to decipher the metaphors (which isn't really all that difficult).

Aug 15th - 22:44pm | lennea

What about those toxic meth labs that are stuck way into the Sierra foothills, talk about chemical junk left behind. Were dealing with a nasty breed of people that could care less about the toxic chemicals that they dump into are pristine streams and rivers surrounding our National Parks.

Aug 15th - 19:55pm | Merryland

Time for a controlled burn to reduce the understory...

Aug 15th - 10:58am | Anonymous

Looks like the Park Service is working with every law enforcement agency except ICE. Keep illegals out of the country and out of the parks and this pot growing problem goes away. Until illegal immigration got out of hand, there weren't marijuana fields in the National Parks.

Fire Continues to Keep Yellowstone's East Entrance Closed

Aug 15th - 14:09pm | jsmacdonald

The most recent press release (8/15 afternoon) just out says that the East Entrance remains closed. This "may remain in effect for a few days," according to the National Park Service. See http://www.nps.gov/yell/parknews/0768.htm

Aug 15th - 07:43am | jsmacdonald

Kurt's headline is correct again as of last evening. Yellowstone has re-closed the East Entrance. See - 8/14/07 Columbine fire threat casues temporary East Entrance closure (press release by National Park Service)

Aug 14th - 05:36am | jsmacdonald

Road re-opening at 8 AM today. 8/14/07 Yellowstone's East Entrance to reopen Tuesday morning (press release by National Park Service)

Aug 13th - 20:27pm | Anonymous

Watch for elk in the roadway, especially pre-dawn. We came upon the backsides of several small herds which were headed in the same direction as our vehicle. We were fortunate to experience a bravura sunrise that morning as we headed westward.

Draining Hetch Hetchy

Aug 15th - 13:28pm | Lyk2Hyk

Be careful when you assume that all HH lovers want this area restored. My first visit to Yosemite included a few days in the HH area after my arrival at YV. I couldn't wait to get out of the valley and HH was exactly what I needed. No crowds, no cars, no buses, and picturesque views in every direction. Much of those views were enhanced by the water that you wish to drain.

The Traveler's Code of Conduct

Aug 14th - 14:33pm | ArizonaTraveler

I guess I could describe myself as an "old timer on the Internet" as well, but I don't believe your "Code of Conduct" for this site is censorship. It may fly in the face of the "longstanding network tradition" Random Walker mentioned above, but who says "flaming" is a tradition everyone should embrace?

Aug 13th - 16:19pm | jersu

I used to think of this website as being similar to "my house", and that you all as readers and commenters are guests at a giant party I've assembled to talk about parks. As host of this party, if I didn't think you were being fair to another party-goer, regardless of your political stance, I had deleted your comment. This didn't happen often.

Aug 13th - 15:09pm | Random Walker

Well hell, I am an old timer on the Internet and I feel you are "implementing a measure of censorship" for sure; also I am a strong advocate of online anonymity. As for Mr. Rule and his "code of conduct" I could care less (but that is another story :-))

Aug 13th - 10:57am | Anonymous

Points well taken.

USOC Feeling Overly Proprietary About "Olympic"

Aug 14th - 13:28pm | Aaron Barnes

The following is the text of an e-mail message that I have sent to Senators Murray and Cantwell and Representative Dicks, all from the state of Washington: ------------------------------------- I assume that by now you are aware of the AP newspaper article "Just whose Olympics are they?" by Curt Woodward, Published Sunday, Aug 12. If not, you can find it at

The Fight Against Fees Losses a Champion

Aug 14th - 07:44am | Kitty Benzar

Thank you Jeremy for posting this. I will make sure his family sees it. For the most part, they had no idea how important Rob's political work was. He was just their brother and uncle. They are coming to realize, through his untimely death, how many others valued him. [Edit of post, as per author's request. We'll learn a lot more about the Baucus bill this fall I hope. ~jersu]

Aug 13th - 11:43am | jersu

Beamis, I don't have full details on the Baucus bill yet. The "worst fee abuses by public land agencies" is quoted from the WSNFC email notification of Rob's death. I would suspect that it has something to do with fees collected under the FLREA, but don't know for sure.

Aug 13th - 11:14am | Anonymous

As it's said, only the good die young. Thanks for all the assistance while you were able. I pray the child's been born to carry on this fight. Any volunteers, besides me?

Vice President Cheney To Dedicate Grand Teton Visitor Center

Aug 14th - 07:42am | jsmacdonald

One more story lagged in on this today.

How is Secretary Kempthorne Doing After Year One?

Aug 13th - 20:29pm | Merryland

I think he comes into the administration at a good time -- a time when the president is attempting to polish up his legacy and Kempthorne is there to wave the flag on his behalf. There's only so much the head of the Interior can do... he or she is basically a puppet of the president with some limited ability to package and present it with his or her personality.

Like No Other Park in the System (I Hope)

Aug 13th - 16:22pm | Merryland

*Yawn* Is every conversation on this website going to be turned to the privatization/NGO topic? Fear mongering goes both ways, ya know... I've played the 9-hole course at Yosemite. It's not all that enjoyable or memorable. It should revert to meadowland.

Aug 13th - 12:07pm | repanshek

This is definitely a very intriguing and thought-provoking discussion. I have, however, a question or two for those promoting the turning over of parks to NGOs.

Candlelight Vigil Planned for Harpers Ferry

Aug 13th - 11:06am | Anonymous

God forbid, ME a LEFTIST? I proudly state once and for all, the biggest fools in this system are those who claim to be allied solely with either the "Left" or the "Right". PLEASE take your political interpretations elsewhere, as they are not pertinent to this columnist.

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